תלמוד בבלי
תלמוד בבלי

פירוש על עבודה זרה 9:23

Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The fact that our ancestors sinned at the golden calf, then people would have been like angels (god) and would not have had children. Thus we, those living now, would not have come into existence.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The implication of the above tradition is that were it not for the sin with the golden calf, the Israelites would have been too pure to engage in procreation. But this is problematic—humanity was commanded to be fruitful from the time of Noah.
The provisional answer is that this refers only to humanity up until the time of Sinai. According to this theory, once the Torah was given, Israelites would have been so holy that they would not have procreated. It is an interesting way of perceiving the revelation, even if it is not going to stand.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The problem is that the Israelites at Sinai were explicitly told—go return to your tents. This is interpreted as meaning that they should go procreate.
The Talmud resolves that they were told to have sex with their wives, but not necessarily to procreate. This is an interesting instance where the rabbis are willing to divide the two—sex does not necessarily imply procreation.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

A verse from Deuteronomy seems to imply that God planned for the Israelites to have descendants even before the sin with the golden calf. But this too can be interpreted as referring only to the children born before the revelation on Sinai.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

In this midrash God shows Adam all of the future leaders of the Jewish people, all the way through R. Akiva. Clearly God anticipated that people would procreate even before they sinned with the golden calf.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

This midrash contains the idea that there are a predestined number of souls in a place called the “guf.” Only when they have all been used up with Messiah come. Again, this implies that people were destined to procreate at the creation of the world.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The Talmud now emends the statement with which this section began. Had they not sinned, Jews would have lived forever. While they would have procreated, those Jews who were at Sinai would eternally overshadow those Jews born later.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The idea that had they not sinned Jews would have lived forever is problematic—the Torah contains laws which assume that people would die. The laws of levirate marriage assume that married men die and the laws of inheritance clearly assume that people die.
The answer is that these laws were written conditionally. They were given under the foreknowledge that they would be relevant only if Israel did not sin.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

This baraita is brought as a difficulty on a statement by Resh Lakish earlier, that were it not for the sin with golden calf, Israel would have lived forever. The baraita implies that after Adam was punished for eating from the tree there was no way to abolish death from the world.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

Resh Lakish agrees with R. Yose. Had Israel accepted and observed the Torah, they could have lived forever.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The verse, “that it may be well with them” seems to promise prosperity, not everlasting life. But R. Yose could respond that immortality is a good thing, so it too could accord with the verse.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The first tanna would interpret the verse “you shall indeed die” not as referring literally to death, but as referring to other types of suffering people that are regarded as if they are dead.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The Talmud now offers prooftexts that all of these types of people are regarded as if they are dead. Exodus 4:19 is God’s words to Moses telling him to return to Egypt for all of the people who wished him dead in Egypt are now themselves dead. But according to the midrash, those in Egypt who wished him dead were none other than Datan and Aviram, who later rebel against Moses in the wilderness. They are called here “dead” because they had already lost their property.
The other prooftexts are relatively straightforward. The verse from Numbers is stated by Moses with regard to Miriam who becomes leprous when she speaks out against Moses. The verse from Genesis is stated by Rachel, when she is still childless.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

All of these verses here are part of a general program to show that God pleaded with Israel to accept the commandments.
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Daf Shevui to Avodah Zarah

The Israelites in the desert were ungrateful, refusing to recognize the good that God had done for them. They were the descendants of Adam who was ungrateful to God for the woman whom he had been given.
Only at the end of their time in the desert did Moses tell the Israelites that they were ungrateful.
Rabbah learns from the experience of the Israelites that it takes forty years to learn the mind of one’s teacher. So students and teachers, give it some time!
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